pinecone koi and treatment

Emergency aid for sick fish and sick ponds.
rufretic
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 11th, 2017, 6:36 pm

I know you were/are overcrowded but to be honest, I don't think your THAT overcrowded. With all the issues your having, I almost wonder if there is something else going on. Overcrowded is kind of a loose term because a 2000 gallon pond can be overcrowded or not with the same fish depending on filteration and water changes. Have you looked into your water? Tried upping the filtration or changing out more water or more frequent water changes? You may have a crowding issue making things worse but I think with how many fish you have and the amount of gallons, you could make it work and keep the fish healthy with enough filtration, a large turnover and large, regular water changes. If you've already looked into all this and have good water that your checking frequently then maybe not, I'm just trying to think outside the box and possibly help. It really makes this hobby stressful when your dealing with health issues all the time. I wish you the best of luck getting it all figured out.

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Marilyn
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Marilyn » January 11th, 2017, 7:12 pm

kevin32 wrote:im lacking on biofiltration period. zakki sieve to a 150 gallon up flow filter. 3800 gallon pond should have twice the biofiltration I have. my water is clear and beautiful but I'm lacking the biofiltration which is actually a easy fix. I have the $ to fix it now. I have been struggling the last year to buy things I need.

oh and good point I agree. sometimes you need to look outside the box.


Rufretric pretty much nailed this IMO and dealing with it during the winter is challenging. It's a good lesson that heading into fall and winter, we have to make sure we've given our koi all they need because, once winter hits, it gets exponentially more challenging.
Kevin, I hope you've got plans to address the serious lack of bio filtration. Short term, a temp fix is additions of fresh water. Small water changes daily will allow you to keep the temp up and change out some water. I know you know to add dechlor but I'm adding it for anyone else reading.

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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 15th, 2017, 8:21 am

kevin32 wrote:fish is doing ok. trying not to add more stress but seems no more redness or bacterial problems. long day today and I will test the water and do water change tomorrow



It takes time, keep up the water quality ands let the Koi heal. If you worry and do things that you don't need to do, at this point, it will not help.
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kdh
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby kdh » January 15th, 2017, 8:28 am

One of the important things to watch for is ammonia spikes in your hospital tank. I do not remember what your set up is with bio conversion and hospital tank but whatever you use. It should be if anything overbuilt imo. You should check for ammonia every 8 hours to see how well your system is working for ammonia levels. So if you get an ammonia spike at all over the hours, days than that is the time frame that has to be taken care of and reconfigured to correct to 0 ammonia before spike. I have dealt with people that do water changes when they see ammonia spike rather than dealing with keeping 0 at all times. And doing water changes (before) ammonia starts to come in play. The theory of changing water at 10% a week never made any sense to me. As all ponds are different and require different amounts of water changes based on their entire systems makeup. A 10% water change per week is in the perfect world, works. A 10% water change per week in a bad system accomplishes little. Again just my opinion and I could be wrong.

rufretic
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 15th, 2017, 1:16 pm

kdh wrote:One of the important things to watch for is ammonia spikes in your hospital tank. I do not remember what your set up is with bio conversion and hospital tank but whatever you use. It should be if anything overbuilt imo. You should check for ammonia every 8 hours to see how well your system is working for ammonia levels. So if you get an ammonia spike at all over the hours, days than that is the time frame that has to be taken care of and reconfigured to correct to 0 ammonia before spike. I have dealt with people that do water changes when they see ammonia spike rather than dealing with keeping 0 at all times. And doing water changes (before) ammonia starts to come in play. The theory of changing water at 10% a week never made any sense to me. As all ponds are different and require different amounts of water changes based on their entire systems makeup. A 10% water change per week is in the perfect world, works. A 10% water change per week in a bad system accomplishes little. Again just my opinion and I could be wrong.


You are not wrong. I might not know much about koi quality but I do know quite a bit about water quality and you are correct, every system needs a different amount of water changed to keep up with nitrates depending on gallons, fish load and filtration. I think someone just came up with the 10% weekly as a basic rule of thumb but some ponds could get away with no water changes and some may need 50% weekly. Those are two extremes but you get the idea.

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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 19th, 2017, 4:44 pm

kevin32 wrote:fish is finally eating and more active. I don't see any bacterial issues from the top or sides. I don't want to stress it so letting it be. the Elbagin seems to keep themy calm in my small 100 gallon qt



Glad to hear it.
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Marilyn
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Marilyn » January 22nd, 2017, 7:17 pm

I'm happy to hear he is doing better. Just a reminder not to feed too heavily at one time. IME koi that had bacterial issues can sometimes react a little adversely to heavy feedings so slow and steady. Plus, if you're going to move it back out you don't want to complicate the transition. I usually soften food pellets at this time of year.

sschult
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby sschult » January 23rd, 2017, 7:13 pm

rufretic wrote:
kdh wrote:One of the important things to watch for is ammonia spikes in your hospital tank. I do not remember what your set up is with bio conversion and hospital tank but whatever you use. It should be if anything overbuilt imo. You should check for ammonia every 8 hours to see how well your system is working for ammonia levels. So if you get an ammonia spike at all over the hours, days than that is the time frame that has to be taken care of and reconfigured to correct to 0 ammonia before spike. I have dealt with people that do water changes when they see ammonia spike rather than dealing with keeping 0 at all times. And doing water changes (before) ammonia starts to come in play. The theory of changing water at 10% a week never made any sense to me. As all ponds are different and require different amounts of water changes based on their entire systems makeup. A 10% water change per week is in the perfect world, works. A 10% water change per week in a bad system accomplishes little. Again just my opinion and I could be wrong.


You are not wrong. I might not know much about koi quality but I do know quite a bit about water quality and you are correct, every system needs a different amount of water changed to keep up with nitrates depending on gallons, fish load and filtration. I think someone just came up with the 10% weekly as a basic rule of thumb but some ponds could get away with no water changes and some may need 50% weekly. Those are two extremes but you get the idea.

I believe that works out 10% daily but ill stick to my 20 minutes water changes daily.
At some point common sense must prevail.

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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 25th, 2017, 7:22 pm

Your Ochiba is very happy.
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Tula
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Tula » January 29th, 2017, 9:00 am

Kevin, Me things your ochiba is one I had my eye on too :) Lucky you !!!!


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