pinecone koi and treatment

Emergency aid for sick fish and sick ponds.
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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 9th, 2017, 7:53 am

kevin32 wrote:
rufretic wrote:
kevin32 wrote:so great i Saved the fish and totally screwed up. I should have injected and added elbergin. good learning experience. fish is doing ok.. TooI forever to recover from clove oil this time. 2 stones under the mouth and gills


At least your trying. One day late on the injection is definitely not the worst thing you could of done. Good luck with him, I'm rooting for you.


thanks russ gave me all the advice and my dumbass delayed injection and elbergin. russ probably won't be to happy with me. why ask for help and not follow through. stupid mistake on my part.



I am happy to give advise, you don't use it that is up to you, but your fish will not get better unless you follow the protocol. I told you that when you came over. You got a lot of flack, on the other site, for even thinking of doing injections and it was because they did not understand that, even though your fish was looking better, it was not better. You always have to follow through or shit will happen.
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Marilyn
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Marilyn » January 9th, 2017, 3:28 pm

Kevin, it is simple and this has been a good lesson to share. The protocol is fairly direct but does need to be diligently followed.
The takeaways are as follows:

1) Have an emergency hospital tank available. These situations are even tougher to deal with if you have to scramble to do a proper set up for an ER case
2) Always have enough solar (99%+ pure salt) ready to use in the set up to .8
3) Have a way to heat this set up slowly. If/when these situations occur and if there is a bacterial issue involved, heating quickly can activate the bacteria before the koi's immune system can combat them. This is where in injectable is important as it can offset the bacterial activity increase. I usually heat the water 3-4 degrees each day. The koi seem to adapt well to this.
4) Elbagin is a great thing to have on hand for these situations. It has mild antibiotic capabilities and the Japanese believe it also has a calming effect
5) If injections are being used, FOLLOW THROUGH on the injection protocol. It's just like humans and how our doctors tell us to make sure we complete the full course :D
6) Watch water parameters, do water changes but slowly add the incoming water to make sure you keep the water in the 72-78 degree range.

Kevin, not all of this is for you personally but I wanted to take the opportunity to share it with any that might read this.

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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 9th, 2017, 4:35 pm

kevin32 wrote:great post thanks marilyn. I just netted the fish gently and it looks about the same as yesterday before I injected 2nd time but some of the redness went down and is a brownish color now.



That means it is getting better.
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 9th, 2017, 5:50 pm

kevin32 wrote:kh 4 drops. going to add BS. nitrite is 1 ppm. need to go back out and see ammonia. how much BS should I add for a 100 gallon qt? I'm going to water change and add water back in the same temp, have a hose I can hook up to the sink for warn water. pond temp is 75 now but heater is on the 71 degree dial idk.

going to order a better heater with digital controller.

edit... ammonia is safe on the alert card. nitrite is 1ppm I guess still cycling. having bacteria shipped soon. the stuff in the package from billy



It will only need 20 grams of BS.
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rufretic
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 9th, 2017, 6:39 pm

kevin32 wrote:edit... ammonia is safe on the alert card. nitrite is 1ppm I guess still cycling. having bacteria shipped soon. the stuff in the package from billy


I'm not sure why you would feel the need to buy bacteria when you have a cycled pond running already? Just take some of the media from your cycled pond and add it to the qt setup. It should be loaded with bacteria and it's free. I'm not familiar with what bacteria you are buying but I don't think it can get much better than what you already have in your existing pond.

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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 10th, 2017, 7:32 pm

kevin32 wrote:just did 3rd injection. redness on fins and belly is not red anymore but the right side is showing a little red. I will pull it and bowl it tomorrow and see how it looks tomorrow.


Just leave it alone for a little while. Bowling it will not make it better and the mere do not work overnight.
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Flash
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Flash » January 11th, 2017, 4:21 am

Found this video on dropsy treatment

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ricshaw
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby ricshaw » January 11th, 2017, 10:33 am

ricshaw wrote:It has been my experience that there is no treatment.



The reason is kidney failure (like mentioned in the video).

I guess I never treated the symptom early enough.

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Marilyn
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Marilyn » January 11th, 2017, 12:13 pm

I've had some interesting conversations with people over the years about koi treatments. One of the most informative came from kdh. He said he had a koi exhibiting no off behavior and it died. He did a necropsy and found it was full of necrotic tissue inside.
Conversely, some fish give us warning signs, like the one Kevin saw with me treating.
All my koi had just gone through extensive parasite treatments because I had introduced three new arrivals including a friend's newbie. My existing herd got the treatments so I knew parasites were not the issue. She also had gone through salt and Elbagin as part of the exposure to the newbies.
Noting her off behavior, I pulled her and she had the slightest indication of a bacterial issue beginning. I did a course of antibiotics and she was fine.

Observation is one of the best tools in your arsenal though some koi don't give a lot of (or any) indications of a problem, unfortunately.

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Marilyn
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Marilyn » January 11th, 2017, 4:55 pm

I agree, great prices and super speedy shipping.


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