pinecone koi and treatment

Emergency aid for sick fish and sick ponds.
sschult
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Location: Orlando Fl

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby sschult » January 5th, 2017, 4:10 pm

What was the window (time wise) from bulging eyes to the scales lifting or pulling up if you caught that and that question is for my personal records since I have only dealth with dropsi once, I wish you have success with the treatment since mine failed. Sorry your koi had not reached the point where the scales had not lifted now am looking at this from a different angle.
At some point common sense must prevail.

kdh
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Joined: December 18th, 2016, 10:15 am

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby kdh » January 5th, 2017, 4:35 pm

Why are you giving injections?

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ricshaw
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby ricshaw » January 5th, 2017, 4:41 pm

It has been my experience that there is no treatment.

sschult
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Joined: December 12th, 2016, 3:13 am
Location: Orlando Fl

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby sschult » January 5th, 2017, 5:49 pm

once again you stated clove oil sucks, could you please elaborate on that.
At some point common sense must prevail.

sschult
Posts: 90
Joined: December 12th, 2016, 3:13 am
Location: Orlando Fl

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby sschult » January 5th, 2017, 5:59 pm

And appreciate your honest answer, since we are all learning here and since you mentioned that you were at 3\4 on the dose. Am in the process my self of having to use it that's my concern.
At some point common sense must prevail.

rufretic
Posts: 96
Joined: December 15th, 2016, 9:40 pm

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 5th, 2017, 8:18 pm

I agree, clove oil can be unpredictable. I used it for 4 koi that I needed to give injections to for bad bacterial infections. On some it worked as I read it would, the fish went under quickly and recovered quickly. Others were hard to put down and even harder to recover. The one that had the worst time recovering the first two times, I was unable to revive after the final treatment. It was really discouraging. I learned if you have one that is seeming to take to long to recover, abort and just put them back in fresh water with lots of aeration, unfortunately I had to lose a nice koi in the learning process. I find it amazing how it can be so spuratic on how affective it is, my dosing was measured very carefully and should of been exactly the same every time. I hope I never need to put fish under again, it was very stressful. I care a great deal about life so if a koi is cheap or expensive, I don't think any loses are acceptable. If I do ever need to do it again, I will be looking into the product you mentioned.

rufretic
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Joined: December 15th, 2016, 9:40 pm

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 5th, 2017, 8:25 pm

Also, I wish you the best of luck saving this guy. It is a difficult problem when they get to that pine cone stage. I've only had one case of that and the fish died within a day of me seeing him like that. I have respect for you for trying to save yours. I think a lot of people don't put in near the effort that they should when a fish falls ill so it's great that your giving this guy the best shot at life that you can. Good luck with him.

rufretic
Posts: 96
Joined: December 15th, 2016, 9:40 pm

Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby rufretic » January 5th, 2017, 8:47 pm

kevin32 wrote:I put the koi back into the 100 gallon qt after the 3/4 clove dose. I held 2 airstones under the koi and even opened its mouth while moving back and forth. it was sideways for about 2 minutes. 4 minutes better and in held airstonesteady under for about 6 minutes. air always helps...


That's what I would consider a quick revival. The ones I had issues with took 10 minutes or more with aeration flushing water through the mouth and gills the entire time. The one I lost, I probably tried for over 30 minutes before I finally had to give up. It was so sad, he was so close, the gills would flap every few minutes, then less and less until nothing. I'm not sure it mattered but I kept mine all upright while reviving so I'm not sure how long they would of stayed on their side. I just held them in the water upright and in the direction of the air stone so that the water would flow though the mouth and gills. Worked great on a couple.

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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 6th, 2017, 7:30 am

rufretic wrote:I agree, clove oil can be unpredictable. I used it for 4 koi that I needed to give injections to for bad bacterial infections. On some it worked as I read it would, the fish went under quickly and recovered quickly. Others were hard to put down and even harder to recover. The one that had the worst time recovering the first two times, I was unable to revive after the final treatment. It was really discouraging. I learned if you have one that is seeming to take to long to recover, abort and just put them back in fresh water with lots of aeration, unfortunately I had to lose a nice koi in the learning process. I find it amazing how it can be so spuratic on how affective it is, my dosing was measured very carefully and should of been exactly the same every time. I hope I never need to put fish under again, it was very stressful. I care a great deal about life so if a koi is cheap or expensive, I don't think any loses are acceptable. If I do ever need to do it again, I will be looking into the product you mentioned.



This is why I do not think clove oil is the right product. I think it is for toe fungus on humans and we use it to sedate Koi. MS-222 is more expensive but it is specifically an anesthetic.
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Russell Peters
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Re: pinecone koi and treatment

Postby Russell Peters » January 6th, 2017, 7:32 am

kevin32 wrote:I will get ms222. much easier on the koi . they are going downhill and clove oil can be to much and the koi don't wake up. it took about 5 minutes for me to recover a 14 inch koi with lots of air under the mouth from clove oil and the fish never went under. russ fully knocked a koi out with ms222 and Marilyn recovered it on 2 minutes with little air stone underneath. the ms222 worked great and we'll decide for yourself. ms222 worked better and less stress and wake up much faster


There was a lot going on when we did this so I am not surprised you couldn't remember but this fish was up in about 30 seconds.
Dealer & US Agent for INC
www.pskoi.com
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MATSUNOSUKE GIN


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